Aplin Software Forum » Tag: drag & drop

Aplin Software Forum » Tag: drag & drop - Recent Posts http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/tags/drag-drop Discuss Neo's SafeKeys here en-US Tue, 07 Sep 2010 08:27:23 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 <![CDATA[Search]]> q http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/search.php neo on "IE 8.06 and Drag and Drop - No Go for me?" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/ie-806-and-drag-and-drop-no-go-for-me#post-62 Sat, 16 Jan 2010 09:22:49 +0000 neo 62@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Hi ulstr, Glad you figured it out - yes, SafeKeys needs to be in the same sandbox as the application you want it to drag-drop to. As part of most (all?) Sandbox protections, dragging and dropping won't work between secure and unsecure 'zones'. <blockquote>Neo, what is the most secure product that is available today? Are there tools that are more secure than your product? I would assume they would not be free like your tool :> just curious..</blockquote> There are so many security options available today (firewalls, scanners, sandboxing etc) - it's confusing to many people and takes a serious hobbiest to know what's best...and I'm no expert on these things (though I profess to love sandboxing as a concept). Do note that there are some great free security tools out there - you just need to know where to find them and what to trust. There are two community sites that I refer to about these things: Gizmo's Freeware (Security page: <a href="http://www.techsupportalert.com/pc/security-tools.html)" rel="nofollow">http://www.techsupportalert.com/pc/security-tools.html)</a> Wilders Security (forum: <a href="http://www.wilderssecurity.com)" rel="nofollow">http://www.wilderssecurity.com)</a> Neo. ulstr on "IE 8.06 and Drag and Drop - No Go for me?" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/ie-806-and-drag-and-drop-no-go-for-me#post-61 Sat, 16 Jan 2010 05:47:08 +0000 ulstr 61@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Just as a follow-up I was able to get this working if I sandbox the browsers and Safe keys within the defense wall. I guess this is triple protection, perhaps I am over doing it. Neo, what is the most secure product that is available today? Are there tools that are more secure than your product? I would assume they would not be free like your tool :> just curious.. Thanks! ps. apologies for the reference to "Soft-Keys" in my previous post I meant "Safe-Keys. ulstr on "IE 8.06 and Drag and Drop - No Go for me?" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/ie-806-and-drag-and-drop-no-go-for-me#post-60 Sat, 16 Jan 2010 05:21:03 +0000 ulstr 60@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Apologies for digging up this older thread but I believe my problem is related... I am using a HIPS product called Defense Wall, hi-level it puts all internet gateway applications within one giant sandbox that is permanent until you disable or make those applications trusted. I am trying to use this software in collab with your Soft-keys software but no luck so far... I was completely stumped why this was happening until I came across this thread. Can anyone confirm this and or offer a recommendation to solve the problem? Perhaps I need to make the soft-keys app untrusted just like my browsers? Here is the link to the software in question.. let me know what you think.. in the mean time I will do some more testing/tinkering to get it working. <a href="http://www.softsphere.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.softsphere.com/</a> ulstR neo on "IE 8.06 and Drag and Drop - No Go for me?" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/ie-806-and-drag-and-drop-no-go-for-me#post-51 Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:16:06 +0000 neo 51@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Hi laopa, Thanks for the post - great to know it works for you. ...and just as I had installed Internet Explorer 8, to confirm that Neo's SafeKeys does work with IE8 for me too! ;) I'll do some more research into Sandboxie to see if there are any extra synergies that can be gained from using Neo's SafeKeys and Sandboxie together. Cheers! Neo. laopa on "IE 8.06 and Drag and Drop - No Go for me?" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/ie-806-and-drag-and-drop-no-go-for-me#post-50 Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:05:55 +0000 laopa 50@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Hi Neo, That is great and is typical that I did not figure that out for myself. I had not put Safekeys into the Sandbox along with the browsers before your comment. I tried it myself and it does work. Now all I have to do is open the browsers I use and Safekeys in Sandboxie and everything is cool. The two programs together would have to boost my level of web security me thinks. Certainly our log-ons, user details and passwords would have to be better protected using Safekeys alone but maybe even better inside Sandboxie. While I have been using Sandboxie for a number of years I would never claim to be an expert. The real expert is this guy Ronen Tzur (tzuk@sandboxie.com) who wrote Sandboxie. He would probably be interested to hear about you program and the fact that the two programs can work together to give extra levels of browsing security. I do not thing it is unsafe but you should seek a comment from Ronen. I am always amazed at how much junk has collected in the Sandbox when it comes time to terminate the browsers I have been using and delete the sandbox. Junk that I consciously did not request. Well thanks again for working through this "problem" with me. I think the end result is something that could benefit a lot of web users. I will still keep an eye on this. Thanks laopa neo on "IE 8.06 and Drag and Drop - No Go for me?" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/ie-806-and-drag-and-drop-no-go-for-me#post-49 Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:24:56 +0000 neo 49@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Hi laopa, Ah! That makes sense! Sandboxes lock off any interaction between sandboxed applications, and the rest of the system. I've just downloaded Sandboxie, and have run Neo's SafeKeys and Internet Explorer within the same sandbox, and can do drag-drop between them. (See screenshot, link below:) <a href="http://www.aplin.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/SandboxieAndNeosSafeKeys.PNG" rel="nofollow">http://www.aplin.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/SandboxieAndNeosSafeKeys.PNG</a> This doesn't work if Neo's SafeKeys is not within the same sandbox as the browser. Is this different to how you have used Sandboxie? Please note that this is my first time using Sandboxie (thought I've read up on it before), I may be using it in an incorrect way, or maybe even unsafe way? Am I going down the right track? Cheers, Neo. laopa on "IE 8.06 and Drag and Drop - No Go for me?" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/ie-806-and-drag-and-drop-no-go-for-me#post-48 Tue, 22 Sep 2009 12:24:25 +0000 laopa 48@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Hi Neo, I'll get to your questions but the bottom line is that my problem is using Sandboxie (www.sandboxie.com.) I use Sandboxie for browsing the web and place my web browsers into that program. Clearly it does not allow Drag and Drop from Safekeys. If I open Firefox as normal and do not put into the Sandbox, Safekeys Drag and Drop works. It even works for IE8, if not in the Sandbox. In terms of your questions. When my browsers are in Sanboxie once I enter the pasword etc. and try to drag and drop it all I get is the "no drop" circle with a cross through it. Yes, I can Drag and Drop into Wordpad. Clearly the issue is between Safekeys and Sandboxie. Nice if it could be resolved they are both excellent programs. Thanks and I will keep an eye on this. laopa neo on "IE 8.06 and Drag and Drop - No Go for me?" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/ie-806-and-drag-and-drop-no-go-for-me#post-47 Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:18:03 +0000 neo 47@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Hi laopa, Hmm. I have Firefox 3.5.3 with NoScript, running XP Pro as well, and I am able to drag and drop from Neo's SafeKeys without a problem. There is something else at play here, and I'd like to find out what it is, so I can fix it for you. In order to assist me to diagnose the issue, can you answer these questions: When you have highlighted the pasword ******* text (say, by double-clicking the text), then you have clicked the text (keeping the mouse down), and begun the drag, do you see a 'no drop' icon (it looks like a circle with a line through it) in place of the mouse pointer? If you do see the 'no drop' icon, does it continue to show as you drag over the Firefox input box, or does the mouse pointer change? If the mouse pointer changes, what does it change to? Also, can you drag-drop between Neo's SafeKeys and WordPad? (Be aware that I do mean WordPad - not Notepad. WordPad allows dragging and dropping, but Notepad does not.) I would like to be able to solve this issue for you. I'm sure you're not the only one having this problem. Answering your question on MOK, it's not a bad program. From a security standpoint, it does offer protection against keyboard loggers, and protection against some clipboard loggers. However, it does not offer any screen logging protection, or full clipboard protection. From a security standpoint, I do not trust anything that puts the password in the clipboard. And I would recommend that you don't either. To further explain, I have developed my own test keylogging/screenlogging/clipboard logging application, and it captures Mouse only Keyboard passwords from the clipboard every time. The clipboard is unsafe, no matter what you try...and MOK only uses the clipboard. Let me know how you go... Neo. laopa on "IE 8.06 and Drag and Drop - No Go for me?" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/ie-806-and-drag-and-drop-no-go-for-me#post-46 Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:40:11 +0000 laopa 46@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Hi Neo, Thanks for getting back so quickly. I do have to say however that I am having the same problem with Firefox 3.5.3, where I can also not Drag and Drop with Safekeys. That could be the NoScript Extension though? The other similar program I downloaded, after reading Gizmo's Tech Support Alert Web Site and recommendations, seems to work i.e. MOK. Do these work in a similar way? I do however much prefer the GUI for Safekey's and operational choices. Thanks again for the program and the help. laopa neo on "IE 8.06 and Drag and Drop - No Go for me?" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/ie-806-and-drag-and-drop-no-go-for-me#post-45 Sun, 20 Sep 2009 16:30:22 +0000 neo 45@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Hi laopa, I've done some research on the net, and from this, it doesn't look like the issue is yours; there are many posts mentioning that drag and drop has been disabled in Internet Explorer 8. It may be a setting that is required in ie8, or it may be disabled altogether. Leave it with me; I'll try to do some tests for myself over the next couple of days, and will report back. In the meantime, if you want to use Neo's SafeKeys with web browsers, I can verify that it works with the latest versions of Firefox, Google Chrome and Apple Safari (all of which allow drag and drop). Neo. laopa on "IE 8.06 and Drag and Drop - No Go for me?" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/ie-806-and-drag-and-drop-no-go-for-me#post-44 Sun, 20 Sep 2009 11:20:31 +0000 laopa 44@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Hi, Newbie questions and comments. I cannot get Safekey's Drag and Drop to work with Internet Explorer 8.06. I have watched the YouTube Video but that does not wok for me? Could there be something I am doing wrong or missing? O/S is WinXP Pro. Help? laopa neo on "Drag & Drop / TrueCrypt" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/drag-038-drop-truecrypt#post-37 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:08:27 +0000 neo 37@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Hi Blake, I've just created a short demonstration video on how to do the dragging and dropping. You'll be able to access it at: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=honY4H1f_z0" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=honY4H1f_z0</a> Hope it assists you. Copy pasting is not recommended at all, as many keyloggers also monitor the clipboard. Dragging and dropping is the only technique that I know to be safe. Neo. Blake on "Drag & Drop / TrueCrypt" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/drag-038-drop-truecrypt#post-36 Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:27:10 +0000 Blake 36@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Hello i just down loaded the Key board and have no idea on how you drag and drop via to get into my email account i am sorry for taking time out of your day to get a petty question answered. Also would copy/pasting the ***** from the key board to notepad then copy/paste it to what you want or is that just as dangerous?. neo on "Drag & Drop / TrueCrypt" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/drag-038-drop-truecrypt#post-34 Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:16:20 +0000 neo 34@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Hi paffke, Thanks for the post. Yes, I'm aware that TrueCrypt doesn't allow drag-drop. Same as Opera, World of Warcraft and some other applications. I have spent a lot of time finding ways to get around this, and to improve Neo's SafeKeys in general. However, in my extensive research and testing, I've found that dragging and dropping is the only safe technique to use. I use some commercial and freeware keyloggers to test the effectiveness of Neo's SafeKeys, and to test possible new features. I have even written my own keylogging program that does keyboard, clipboard and screenshot logging - for my personal testing purposes only. I have looked at Mouse only Keyboard. It's not a bad application, and it does defeat programs that only do keylogging. But I know that it isn't very effective against clipboard loggers. My test keylogging application captures Mouse only Keyboard passwords every time. ...and as much as I'd love for Neo's SafeKeys to work with all applications, I don't want to use the clipboard, which is inherently unsafe. Cheers, Neo paffke on "Drag & Drop / TrueCrypt" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/drag-038-drop-truecrypt#post-29 Mon, 20 Jul 2009 05:13:42 +0000 paffke 29@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Hello there. First off, thank you for providing the community with your "safe" on-screen-keyboard, it certainly plugs a hole many people aren't even aware of. Unfortunately, as seems to have been discovered with other programs as well (Opera?), some applications won't work as "recipients" of SafeKeys drag/drop operation, in this case i'm talking about TrueCrypt. This is very unfortunate, as passwords to encrypted filesystems are obviously quite "valuable" and there is really no other option in TrueCrypt than to enter your keyphrase using an inherently unsafe keyboard. Now, i know it's definitely not your fault that the people programming TrueCrypt wrote their software the way they did, but maybe there'd be other ways to send a password to a target application than just drag and drop? A software similar to your's, called "mouse only keyboard" seems to use a sort of locked clipboard that cannot be read by keyloggers monitoring your clipboard, maybe this could be an alternative? neo on "Drag/Drop vs Copy/Paste" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/dragdrop-vs-copypaste#post-25 Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:07:06 +0000 neo 25@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Hi Jonah, Sorry about the late reply- I've been camping in the bush for the past 9 days. Out of phone coverage and without computer. Glad you like the install edition. I'll look at the manual aspect, and see if I can improve on this. Thanks for the tip. <blockquote>And now, why can I not choose my own password. I want one that I can easily remember. When I reset my password I got one that is a combination of letters and numbers in lower and upper case form. I wrote it down, but it is too cumbersome to use. I have already chosen one that would be good fo me. It is in a foreign language (not English). </blockquote> Aaah. After the line It is in a foreign language (not English) I think I understand what's going on here. There is a known issue with non-English keyboards and the random characters feature (see <a href="http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/internationalisation-bug)" rel="nofollow">http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/internationalisation-bug)</a>. I'm beginning work on the next major version of Neo's SafeKeys, which should resolve these issues. Can I ask what language keyboard layout you're using? In the meantime, you may wish to simply avoid the 'Hide password in amongst random characters' feature on your non-English keyboard, until the next version is out. <blockquote>p.s. I still have the first one on my desktop. Can I use that on my flash drive, or do I have to download it from your website? </blockquote> Yes you can use it - no need to download it. Cheers, Neo. Jonah on "Drag/Drop vs Copy/Paste" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/dragdrop-vs-copypaste#post-23 Thu, 25 Dec 2008 15:49:00 +0000 Jonah 23@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Dear Neo, The installed edition is great. I downloaded and opened the zip file and a new icon is now on my desktop. I can open the application with just one click, leave it on the desktop and when I need it to create a password, I can bring it up with alt/tab. I went to the features section and printed out the explanatory manual. Big problem for me. Although all the icons on the screen manual are clear, the printed version not so. All the icons are very, very small, miniscule is a better word. Can you make them much larger on the screen mode so that they will print out clearly. And while on the subject of clarity, the icons on the on-screen keys are too small to discern their function. And now, why can I not choose my own password. I want one that I can easily remember. When I reset my password I got one that is a combination of letters and numbers in lower and upper case form. I wrote it down, but it is too cumbersome to use. I have already chosen one that would be good fo me. It is in a foreign language (not English). Thanks, Jonah p.s. I still have the first one on my desktop. Can I use that on my flash drive, or do I have to download it from your website? neo on "Drag/Drop vs Copy/Paste" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/dragdrop-vs-copypaste#post-22 Tue, 23 Dec 2008 14:31:18 +0000 neo 22@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Hi Jonah, I've taken your issue on board, and have now created a new 'version' of Neo's SafeKeys for you, and users like yourself. If you go to the Download page (<a href="http://www.aplin.com.au/?page_id=338)" rel="nofollow">http://www.aplin.com.au/?page_id=338)</a>, you'll see that you can now download a 'Neo's SafeKeys 2008 Install'. This is a setup program that will set up Neo's SafeKeys on your computer and will create menu icons in the Start -> Programs menu. I believe that this is what you're after? (The 'Neo's SafeKeys 2008 Portable' is the same version of Neo's SafeKeys - but just the .exe program.) Let me know how you go with the Install edition. Cheers, Neo. Jonah on "Drag/Drop vs Copy/Paste" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/dragdrop-vs-copypaste#post-21 Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:53:47 +0000 Jonah 21@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Thanks for your reply. You wrote: It will be where you saved it after you downloaded it. Try downloading it again to the Desktop, so you can use it from there whenever you need it. Your icon is on my desktop. When I run it, the application appears immediately on my desk top. 1. How do I save it? I did not get the choice where to save it to. 2. How do I create an icon in my tray that would appear each time I start my computer? Thanks, Jonah neo on "Drag/Drop vs Copy/Paste" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/dragdrop-vs-copypaste#post-20 Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:16:14 +0000 neo 20@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Hi Jonah, As it's designed for portable use, Neo's SafeKeys doesn't 'install' itself. So you won't find it in the Start -> Programs menu. It will be where you saved it after you downloaded it. Try downloading it again to the Desktop, so you can use it from there whenever you need it. Let me know how you go. Neo. Jonah on "Drag/Drop vs Copy/Paste" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/dragdrop-vs-copypaste#post-19 Sun, 21 Dec 2008 15:19:43 +0000 Jonah 19@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ I downloaded the neo safekey utility. However, after I closed my computer and then re-opened it I cannot find any icon that would activate the utility. Where is it hiding? Thanks, Jonah neo on "Drag/Drop vs Copy/Paste" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/dragdrop-vs-copypaste#post-7 Mon, 17 Nov 2008 11:53:22 +0000 neo 7@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ Hi @MurrayDW, Cutting and pasting (using Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V) is actually very risky. Some keyloggers also capture the contents of the clipboard (quite a trivial thing to do). I'd strongly recommend you use the drag-drop method, as in all of my research (and I've done a heap), I cannot find any way for a keylogger to be programmed to capture information from a drag-drop event. I was thinking of disabling the cut-paste from future versions of Neo's SafeKeys. What do you think? Neo. MurrayDW on "Drag/Drop vs Copy/Paste" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/dragdrop-vs-copypaste#post-6 Sun, 16 Nov 2008 02:06:18 +0000 MurrayDW 6@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ First, thank you for writing this utility. It fills a vital security space for computer road warriors. Out of curiosity, if I enter a password using your virtual keyboard, then copy to the clipboard using CTRL-C, then paste to my password entry box with CTRL-V, is that less secure than using a mouse drag-drop? In other words, can a malicious keylogger know what text I'm cutting and pasting via the clipboard? neo on "Opera drag drop issues" http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/topic/opera-drag-drop-issues#post-5 Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:50:57 +0000 neo 5@http://www.aplin.com.au/forum/ I have heard from some users that Neo's SafeKeys cannot drag and drop to the Opera web browser. I have done some investigation into Opera; both testing and extensive online research. In short, the Windows version of Opera does not allow dragging and dropping between itself, and any other application. Opera will only allow dragging and dropping within itself. This is not a Neo's SafeKeys problem, as any application would have a issue with this. Probably the only hope would be to lobby Opera itself, to get them to allow dragging and dropping from other applications to Opera. Here are two postings on the forums that explain the dragging and dropping limitations (in various ways): <a href="http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=253332" rel="nofollow">http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=253332</a> <a href="http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=249292" rel="nofollow">http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=249292</a> (I'm sure there are more). Hope this helps explain things. Neo.